Interview with 'Simon' (June 9, 2014)

Interview with 'Simon'

General Public View of Dance

Monday June 9, 2014

10.00am – 10.40am

Wimbledon, London

Pre-Interview Set Questions:

·        Name

·        Age       

·        Location

·        Profession

·        Are you trained in any style of dance? If so, what was the period of training, e.g. 12 years in jazz, one off workshop in salsa

·        Are you involved any kind of dance activity in your daily life? e.g. Zumba classes, clubbing, work in the dance industry, watch tv shows on dance.

·        In the entire arts spectrum which includes music, visual art, literature, where does dance rank for you? Please explain why this is the case?

·        Do you agree that dance has always been a part of human society? Why? Why not? If yes, what role do you think dance has played historically?

·        What role do you think dance plays now in our society, if any?

·        If you had to become active in any type of dance, what type would you choose and why?

·        Do you think that they type of dancing I am researching, the type of dancing that anyone can do and which is usually done at social events, is actually a style of dancing? Why? Why not?

·        When you have participated in the above dancing, what affects the way you move?

·        Would you like to dance more in your daily life? Why? Why not?

Audio Version of Interview

Transcript

Note:

The interviewee is a 39 year old male physiotherapist. He is based in London and has chosen to remain anonymous for the purposes of this interview so I will be using 'Simon' as a pseudonym.

LS:

Right so shall we get started. So can you tell me your age?

S:

I’m 39.

LS:

And you’re based in London?

S:
Yes.

LS:
And your profession?

S:

I’m a physiotherapist.

LS:
Firstly can you tell me if you’re trained in any style of dance?

S:
No.

LS:
OK, and um, just so you know, some of these questions are going to be related to you specifically and some of them are just going to be general questions.

S:

Ok.

LS:
Can you tell me, for you, what defines a dancer? So if you were to watch someone, say if you were on the dance floor and your eyes were drawn to one person over another, what are the qualities that person has, to you that makes them a good dancer?

S:

I think it’s being able to stay on the beat, on the rhythm really. Umm, and obviously physical movement is important. I suppose some people would be on the beat but not really know what to do with their limbs and joints whereas some other people would be more co-ordinated.

LS:
So say you were at a professional dance show. You’re watching a show and everyone’s trained professionally so they’re all on the beat and they’re all doing the same movement; often the case is that you watch maybe some people more than others. I don’t know, that’s been my experience. Has that been your experience?

S:
Yeah.

LS:
And why is your then eye then drawn to some rather than others?

S:

I think because of my profession especially, often their physical attributes often attract me.

LS:
What they’re able to do?

S:
Yeah what they’re able to do in terms of flexibility but also their physique, their muscular definition and so on.

LS:
So is it about the dancing then?

S:
Um well yeah because I think you can someone in the same dance group who is physically well developed and so on but are not good a dancer as someone else. Why I would say they’re not such a good dancer, umm I suppose it’s the movement, fluidity and form and so on that will attract me.

LS:
Ok. So are you involved in dance activity in your day to day life at all?

S:

Not really. Apart from a little bit of social dancing, not that often.

LS:
Ok, let’s just skip forward to that, seeing as you brought it up, the social dance aspect. So, do you go out dancing socially in your life?

S:

Not that often anymore. Used to as a student a lot.

LS:

When you were a student. Can you just say the age group?

S:

Well I studied for a long time, I started when I was 18 up until the age of about 23. And then had a break from studies. Studied again from the age of 28 through to 33, yeah 32, thereabouts. So yeah. I suppose in my first degree, probably did a lot more social dancing. When I was older, different responsibilities and so on so we didn't socialise as much as part of your studies.

LS:

So do you think that’s quite key the fact that you were a student that you went out dancing a lot because of the lifestyle at the time?

S:

Yeah definitely and because the opportunity was there.

LS:

Right, because that was what your peers were doing as well?

S:
It was what your peers were doing and at university, a lot of dances were arranged so we had, we actually called them socials and as part of your residence. The university I studied at had four male, no sorry, five male and five female residences and you would have on a weekly basis a social arranged between a male residence and a female residence.

LS:

Can you [say] for clarity, where was this, that you studied?

S:

This was in South Africa.

LS:

And can you explain, just talk through what the social would involve? What kind of dancing, and what kind of music?

S:

Yeah so as a first year, I think part of it was just creating the opportunity for interaction between students so later on, I was on the House Committee of my Res and we would arrange it.  So as a first year you had to attend. And then seniors, senior students could attend, were free to attend if they wanted to. Yeah so it was a weekly social and a lot of it was an opportunity for interaction between students. But to be honest, a lot of the seniors still attended because it was good fun.

LS:

And what kind of dancing was it that happened at these socials?

S:
Well in South Africa we do a lot of what you call it, couples dancing.

LS:

Yeah, partner dancing.

S:
Partner dancing, so to contemporary music.

LS:
Like what? Give me an example?

S:

Oh it could be anything. It could be U2, it could be Waterboys. Just what was contemporary music at the time.

LS:

But it was partner dancing.

S:
It was partner dancing.

LS:

Was it always partner dancing?

S:

Um, mostly it would turn into partner dancing. I think initially most people would be a bit shy to ask a girl to have a dance unless you know her so as seniors we would normally do it as you would know a lot of the girls there anyway. But as a juniors or as first year student, you may do a little bit of free dancing and partner later on.

LS:
Interesting.  And were you guys taught to partner dance or did you just kind of make it up? Was there a kind of structure that you adhered to?

S:          

Yeah there is because I think socially growing up, it’s a very traditional way of dancing, especially in the Afrikaans South African community. And that’s quite interesting because English South African’s don’t really partner dance that much.

LS:         
And so do you mean that from a young age, that was part of the culture?

S:
Yes if you go to weddings, you go to any sort of social event, there was always partner dancing.

LS:

So was dancing a part of your childhood then in that way. That you participated in partner dancing from a young age?

S:

It was at events. Other than events, I never did any dancing at such but yes at any sort of event that we had, there would be dancing.

LS:

So do you think that period, that 18-23 period was the peak of your social dancing so far?

S:

Yeah probably. When I came over to England for the first time, I wasn't qualified as a
physiotherapist. I was just sort of travelling at the time.

LS:

And how old were you then?

S:

So I was 27 when I first came over.  So we did a lot of dancing then going out to clubs and things like that which was very different to what we did in South Africa.

LS:

And how did you find that difference in terms of that you danced both styles.  What was your preference? Or is your preference?

S:
My preference is the couples dancing but I don’t think it’s necessarily to do with the dancing.

LS:
The interaction?

S:
It’s more to do with the interaction. Whereas if you go to a club, if you’re in a group of people, you’ll have interaction with that group. Maybe you’ll meet one or two other people on an evening but you won’t interact with everybody, whereas couples dancing, you tend to have many partners that you’ll dance with in the evening so it’s quite social. Both are social but it’s personably social.

LS:
I've just got another off the cuff question because you seem to have done a lot of couple dancing. So obviously in lot of those situations, usually the man is the lead. How do you find that? Did you find that easy? Or would it depend on the partner? And culturally was there a difference in terms of couple dancing in South Africa as opposed to over here or other places you've been? What’s it like for the man to have to be the lead?

S:

Again culturally in South Africa it’s not a problem because there is more sort of a male female difference in terms of traditional values. Here perhaps not so much. So yeah I think that the girls that you danced with probably expected that you take the lead.

LS:

So they would allow you to lead?

S:

I also found that it made a big difference in who you danced with and who you danced with often cause some girls could really follow your lead but some other girls where quite, maybe they wanted to lead a little so it wasn't so fluid. Over here I've done a little bit of couple dancing. My wife’s family is all Irish so they tend to do a bit more frequently. So
I've been to one or two and it tends to be more older social events like a fiftieth wedding anniversary and stuff like that where I've couple danced and to be honest, they will also allow you to take the lead.

LS:
I've just got one more question about the couple dancing. So even though it’s a structure of the two people dancing together, it is quite spontaneous in that you might go with the music and depending on the space that you have and the person that you’re dancing with at the time and how you might be feeling. So in a couple dance scenario for you, what makes a good dance?

S:

Space is important because obviously with couple dancing you’re not standing in one place dancing so you’re moving around the dance floor. So space is important and also other people being able to dance because ultimately they’ll bump into you and that just makes it more difficult. I’d say that probably space is the most thing.

LS:

Really?  Ok interesting. I’m going to move on now.

S:

OK.

LS:

Are you involved or are you trained in any art form? Painting, music?

S:
I play a few instruments but I’m not formally trained. So I've had some piano training and I've had some guitar training but I’m pretty much self-taught on drums, guitar and piano.

LS:
And do you find that that experience of playing instruments, does that effect your social dancing?

S:
Yeah, very much.

LS:

How so? Can you explain?

S:

So my favourite instruments are drums.

LS:

What kind of drums?

S:
Kit. Drum kit. And percussion. I do percussion not that I've had any formal training in it. And that to me, the melody and so on obviously has a role to play but really it is the beat that is the important thing so some music to me, just lends itself to dancing and others  that is very fast, obviously couple dancing on some techno beats which are very fast is quite difficult. Because I’m quite good at keeping the beat from playing the instruments, mainly is what draws me to some music rather than others.

LS:
Ok. So that kind of rhythmic thing carries on to the social dance experience?

S:
Yeah.

LS:
Alright for you, in terms  of the arts spectrum including music, literature, painting, so on and so forth, where does dance rank for you in terms of a priority? Is it even on there?

S:

Yes it is and I’d say it’s probably first or second. Like I enjoy shows which is normally a combination of singing and dancing.

LS:

So you like musicals?

S:

Yeah musicals. Musical shows. So the combination of singing, acting and dancing. Painting and stuff like that I appreciate but it’s not something that I…

LS:

And why does dance rank so highly for you then?

S:

Again because, like I said, I started training in instruments and I was told, or my parents were told that there was no point in me coming because I would not read music. Because I read everything from ear. So I have quite a good feel and…

LS:

You appreciate seeing that [embodied]?

S:

..that’s why I think I appreciate that more than other things.

LS:

If you could train in any form of dance what would it be and why?

S:

Tap.

LS:

Tap!  Explain.

S:

Again the rhythm. I’m never [inaudible], I’m always tapping to music and so on

LS:

Is there like any tap dancers you know of?

S:

No really. Obviously Michael Flatley which is not really tap in an Irish form. Which I just find to be amazing to watch. But that’s the only real dancer that I know of.

LS:
Ok so I think I've talked to you a bit about the kind of dancing that I’m looking at. This kind of everyday style dance that people can do irrespective of whether they have training and it happens usually at social events. Do you actually think that it is a form of dancing, a style of dancing? How would you definite it? Because obviously there are things like ballet and jazz which are more kind of structured forms of dance and this is something that anyone can do and can take any form or expression. Do you think that it is a form of dancing?

S:

No I wouldn't say it’s a form of dancing, I would say it’s a form of enjoyment and that why everyone does it because it gives you some entertainment but I don’t think it a formal type of dance.

LS:
Going back to what you were saying earlier about how you don’t go out dancing as much
as you did say when you were a student. Can you explain a little bit why that’s the case?

S:

Umm, yeah I think just different responsibilities. I think even when I studied the second time around as a mature student I had different responsibilities. I had a part time work because I was no longer living at home, nor in a university residence. I had to live on my own, pay for a flat and so on, so the opportunities were just fewer so you had other things that needed to be done and now I have children, young children so again finding a babysitter that often is not available.  So that’s probably to do with responsibility and opportunity.

LS:

Right. So would you like to dance more in your daily life?  Are you happy with the amount you go out dancing now? Would you like to lessen it, keep it as it is or have a few more opportunities?

S:

Hmm. That’s a difficult question.

LS:

Is it?

S:

Yeah it is. I mean I enjoy it but it’s not only the dancing, you can go out and socialise without the dancing which is also enjoyable.

LS:

Building that question, what do you think dancing adds to a night out? Like you say, you can go out and meet friends and have dinner and have a drink or whatever and still interact socially. What do you think the element of dancing, if you introduce dancing to the night, what does it give to the night?

S:

Hmm.

LS:

Exercise?

S:

I suppose it is a form of exercise. Well depends on how you do it? Well I think nowadays when you go out dancing, and maybe you’ll come onto that question because it was in your survey, but a lot of it is to do with inhibitions and so on. So I think that people will go out to a pub where dancing, where there is an opportunity to dance but some people won’t. Some people still just sit and have their conversations and so on. So I think that alcohol and losing inhibitions have a role to play in whether you’re going to dance or not.  So I don’t know if it adds anything to the enjoyment because I think you can enjoy yourself in both, or I can enjoy myself in both scenarios, whether I’m dancing or not. Sometimes depends on the company I suppose. If you’re happy just to have a conversation. ..

LS:

So you’re not sure is what you’re saying?

S:
I’m not a 100% sure it adds anything.

LS:

It’s just a different experience.

S:

Yeah so for me, I think  some events dancing almost always have to be a part of it to make the event, for example a wedding.

LS:
Yeah, yeah I see.

S:

I think a wedding without the dance element is sometimes more…

LS:

Why’s that, why does …

S:
I think it’s more formal I think.

LS:

Why do you think dancing so important to happen at a wedding?

S:
Probably just tradition. Obviously we've all been to weddings where there is no dancing. It just feels a little more stiff. With the dancing element it’s more enjoyable.

LS:

So celebratory?

S:

Yeah so if you’re asking what does it add, maybe it does add to the enjoyment aspect.

LS:

Ok so I interrupted you before when I asked you whether you’d like to dance more or
less in your dally life so can you go back to that cause I don’t think you answered that yet?

S:

Yeah I really enjoy dancing so I wouldn't mind if I had the opportunity to dance more but it’s also not something that I feel that…

LS:
You have to seek out?

S:

That I have to seek it out. Yeah.

LS:

Actually I just forgot one question. So when you do social dance, and I’m talking about solo social dance here, a lot of people have certain moves that irrespective of whatever the music is or whatever‘s happening, they pull out those moves. Do you have those for yourself?

S:

Yeah probably to extent. I think coordination comes into it. There are certain things you have taught yourself to do. Some people when you don’t have that coordination will maybe stay more basic or if they go more complicated it probably loses the music a bit.

LS:

So what would be like a signature move of yours if you had to describe it?

S:

Like Michael Jackson.

LS:

Right, really?

S:

No, no, no. I don’t know. Again it comes back to the beat, I do probably a lot more footwork movement because of interpreting the beat and the drums. Not only the rhythm but also the changes in the drums that is in the music.

LS:

So the focus is on your feet, is what you’re saying?

S:

Yeah, I’d say so.

LS:
Ok. Do you want to elaborate anymore?

S:

Hmm, well I think if you don’t move your feet it’s quite difficult to dance. You can have someone standing around and sort of swaying a bit and you know. I think that the foot movement is very important to drive all the rest of the [moves]. And again, from my professional point of view, it just makes bio mechanical sense. Not that I think about that when I’m dancing.

LS:

I was going to ask you that.

S:

No, I don’t think about that when I’m dancing but just thinking about it now, it just makes sense if your feet are moving. Your upper body is going to be following that more easily.

LS:

Alright. When you do go out social dancing, do you have preferences of where you like to go? Like do you like to go to clubs, friends’ houses or pubs?

S:

Yeah I don’t really like clubs because of the general type of music they play there so if it’s very repetitive; house or techno or that sort of type of music, one where the beat or melody rarely changes and also it’s quite loud in terms of being able to talk to people so I probably like a combination of the two where you have an opportunity to dance and an opportunity to have a conversation.

LS:

So speaking of music, if you were at a club dancing, what would be the ideal music for you, to get you up dancing?

S:

I personally like reggae but that’s not so mainstream. So most pubs that I got to would be like contemporary 80s music and a little bit of folky type music. Van Morrison, Bob Dylan, that type of music.

LS:

So because of your experience as a drummer, do you find that if you hear percussive music for example, that makes you want to move? Or do you just kind of listen to that as a drummer, if you know what I mean?

S:

Hmm. Yeah ummm, I don’t think the drums don’t necessarily. I do think I listen out for it a little bit more but that’s now what necessarily drives me to the dance floor. Cause every song has a drum beat, or a beat. So that’s not necessarily what will make me dance but I do tend to listen out for the drumming and percussion more.

LS:

Ok, my last question. Just when we talked a bit about how much you go out dancing nowadays, do you find that is the kind of norm amongst your social groups, in terms of your friends and family or whatever. Are you on par with them in terms of how much you access social dance? Can you talk a bit about that?

S:

I think it differs. My group of friends here compared to my group of friends in South Africa. And again it’s just circumstances. In South Africa we tend to have babysitters if not on call.

LS:

Do you mean family?

S:

Yeah, so it’s a lot easier. And also a lot of places are more child friendly so you can even take a child along. Here I think my group of friends don’t really go out dancing much.

LS:

And why is that?

S:

Same sort of scenario that I...

LS:

Young children?

S:

Yeah just kids, so that doesn't happen too often. My wife’s English and so her original group of friends, they tend to go out more. And again, it’s because their kids are much older now so their kids are sort of teenagers so they can leave them alone.

LS:

Yeah, well they’re out dancing too probably.

S:
Yeah they are probably are also. So that’s probably the reason why, so to answer your question. What was your question?

LS:
I was asking in terms of your friends, do you go out dancing the same amount as they do?

S:

Yeah same amount. So I think it differs here and there. My own friends over here, pretty much the same.

LS:

Sorry I said it was my last question but something else just popped into my head that I've been thinking about. You know how when you have conversations with people, people often talk about maybe films they've seen or music they like, bands they've seen, books they've read. And it’s quite common in day to day conversation to maybe have that kind of discussion about the arts. Do you find the same with dance? Like do you ever sit down with someone and have a chat about dance? Or say, ‘Do you know such and such a choreographer?’

S:

Apart from you?

LS:

Yeah apart from me.

S:

Yeah I think, in terms of shows, yes. Not in any other circumstances. People will mention it if they've been to a show or a musical or something like that but, and to be honest, I think when you do talk about musicals, dancing isn't what you talk about. So it’s more the story and the singing. If you go to a dance show obviously, that will be discussed but it’s not something that very frequently happens.

LS:

Why do you think that is?

S:

Hmmm.

LS:

Like for yourself, would you more readily talk about a film or a book than dance to a friend, or your wife or in conversation with someone?

S:

Probably and I think the reason is it’s more universal. So a movie or a book, most people would have heard of it or seen the movie. So whereas a dance show, maybe you've seen it but no-one else has seen it.

LS:

So do you think that’s interest or access? Cause obviously going to film is easier or cheaper, these days than going to see a dance show.

S:

I think they go hand in hand because if you’re not interested in dance, you’re not going to take out the money anyway to see it. So the interest is one part. But yeah it is less accessible to go see a show than it is to watch a movie.

LS:

Can I just as you one more question? And then I know we’re done with time.

S:

Don’t worry, we can carry on for a little bit.

LS:

I have to transcribe this, it’s going to take me a long time. So what role, this is a very general question so feel free to answer it however you want. What role do you think dance plays in our society now? Cause it’s always played some kind of role in human society. What role is now? If it has such a thing as a role? Entertainment? Leisure? Exercise? For you personally, what do you think?

S:
I don’t think it plays a very, what’s the word I’m looking for? So I think in times gone by in expressing culture. I don’t think it necessarily does that anymore.

LS:

Right. Why’s that?

S:

Well you know, probably because we've just evolved into much more technological society. Better education all round. People don’t express… I think if, for example if you look at a African culture, they would use a dance to thank gods for the food that they have so I don’t think we use it in that sort of sense anymore but I suppose it does still express your identity if you look at street dance. If you look at the people that participate in that. It’s normally a very specific socio-economic group that are involved in that. I think another role that it plays nowadays and only because of the popularity of it on TV shows and talent shows and so on, I think it almost has a role in terms of a career. So people see it as a way of making money, if you’re any good at it. I think there’s lots more opportunity than before where you would have been to be a very classical trained ballet dancer or a very classically trained jazz dancer. Whereas now you can do freestyle dancing all sorts of different things and you can still, I mean, what’s the group, the very popular group?

LS:

I don’t know.

S:

Obviously not that popular. The group that won one of those talent shows?

LS:

A dance group?

S:

Yeah.

LS:

I don’t know. Anyway so.

S:

Anyway yeah I think after that, especially I found that when you watch these programs every second group is a dance group so maybe it is trying to get out of certain circumstances and so on. So that’s the role I think it plays. I don’t think the social role has changed much so I think. Like I said dancing is there for enjoyment. I don’t think the way that we dance is any formal type of dance. I just think it’s just there for enjoyment and entertainment type of dance.

LS:

I just thought of one more question. I promise this is the last one. Now I know you have young children and I have a young daughter as well.  So for you watching your kids to where they are at now. I find with my daughter that dance is just an innate thing. She kind of did it before she even knew what dance was. Is that the same for your kids?

S:

Yeah absolutely.

LS:
So um, at what point do you think it becomes a ‘thing’ for us as people? Because obviously it’s something we are all born with the capacity to do, well most of us, that expressive way of moving your body. But at some point it becomes a thing to do rather than just an innate part of our expression.  What do you think actually happens?

S:

Well I think maybe we formalise it. My son just had his first school disco. He’s six and they had a little school disco and uh, so they were probably told ok well, that the music is going to play now and you’re going to dance whereas before the music would have played and they would have danced anyway. So it was much more informal. So maybe it’s not a change that happens naturally, it’s a change that happens by things being arranged. And I think also the other part of it is probably just development. A small child has no inhibitions and when they go into their teenage years and so on, they are much more self-aware and so that’s maybe the other part where it becomes more, ‘Ok, I wanna go out dancing now’ and some people will feel more comfortable with than others just cause of their own self-awareness, whether they’re shy. So maybe puberty, I dunno. So maybe I think we formalise it a little and you probably become more self-aware around your teenage years so you wouldn't do it as much unless you were very good at it.

LS:

Ok well thank you for answering for all my questions. Do you have anything you want to add or ask for yourself?

S:

No not really.

LS:
You’re not going to talk about dance now for the next year.

S:

No, no, no.

LS:

Well thank you very much.

I asked the interviewee an additional question below via email:

LS:

Do you mind if I just ask you one additional question? I'm asking you specifically as you work in and probably deal with a lot of sports people.

Why do you think, for the every person, sports is more a thing to be prioritised than social dance?

I'm assuming that the above is the case. I could be wrong.

S:

I think people associate sport with exercise and health benefits. Social dance is probably associated more with relaxation as well as some more unhealthy activities such as drinking, smoking etc.  Secondly the opportunity for sport is greater than social dance and can also be done as an individual e.g. running. I think most people would agree that dancing is a form of exercise, but more in a formal environment (dance classes) rather than dancing socially.