Interview with Victoria Da Silva and Carlos Pons Guerra and (June 27, 2014)

Interview with Victoria da Silva and Carlos Pons Guerra  
Dance Industry Professionals

Friday June 27, 2014

11.30am – 12.10pm

Oval House Theatre, London

Carlos Pons Guerra is the Artistic Director of DeNada Dance Theatre. Victoria Da Silva is a founding member of DeNada and also assistant rehearsal director. I was given Carlos' details by a friend who knew I was looking for professional dancers to interview. Carlos kindly agreed to be interviewed and asked if I would also like to interview Victoria, a friend and dancer from his company.

Carlos Pons Guerra. Photo from here

Victoria da Silva. Photo from here

Transcript:                                      

                                              Audio recording of interview with Carlos & Victoria

LS:

Ok shall we start? So I’m here with Carlos and Victoria and they’re both trained professional dancers and I’m just going to be asking them some of their thoughts about social dancing. So firstly, Victoria, do you want to tell me a little about your training and your background in dance?

VDS:

Yes, I started doing gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics when I was about five years old. Trained for about 13, 15 years. Anyway then I started doing contemporary dance.

LS:

Here?

VDS:

In Spain, that was all in Spain and then I came to England to do proper training in contemporary dance.

LS:

Where did you train when in England?

VDS:

I did it in Leeds at [the] Northern School of Contemporary Dance and I came here five years ago. I trained for three years and now I stay to develop my profession.

LS:

So how long have you been working as a professional dancer for?

VDS:

Two years.

LS:

And is that the primary thing that you do or do you do other things also?

VDS:

I do teaching also.

LS:

Dance teaching?

VDS:

Yes and gymnastics teaching.

LS:

And do you mind me asking how old you are?

VDS:

I’m twenty seven.

LS:

And you live in London?

VDS:

No I live in Leeds. We just move around England depending.

LS:

On where the work is.

VDS:

Exactly yeah.

LS:

Ok Carlos, what about you?

CPG:

I’m from Gran Canaria in Spain.

LS:

Oh really, I always wanted to go there.

CPG:

Go, it’s beautiful. I started dancing quite late, say at fifteen. I always wanted to dance. Watching my sister, she used to do flamenco and I always wanted to do a bit but my parents didn't think it was the right thing for boys so I managed to secretly get to classes, ballet classes when I was fifteen.

LS:

How did you manage that?

CPG:

Well there was a lot of fighting. A lot of fighting. I saved some money and I told them it was just like a summer workshop thing that they did all sorts of theatre with a bit of dancing.  They kind of thought doing theatre was alright. And so I did and then they eventually let me take classes in ballet but they really didn't support it and they really didn't like it. And then I really wanted to study performing arts. I thought I was going to do drama but then I started liking dance more and then I didn't even know what contemporary was but there was a school in England, the Northern School of Contemporary Dance. I sent them a video of me doing ballet and I got a place. So I came over to England I didn't know what contemporary dance was.

LS:

How old were you at that point?

CPG:

Seventeen.

LS:

So you’d been doing ballet for two years at this point?

CPG:

Yeah and I didn't know what contemporary dance was so it was all a bit Iike… so then I just stayed. My parents really didn't like it so I had to go to uni for a year to do English and then I decided to go back to the dance school and I finished training contemporary there. Once I finished my training, it took a bit longer than it should have because I was moving back and forth. I started auditioning but I realised I really enjoyed choreography more.

LS:

Making your own work.

CPG:

Making my own work and seeing it on other people. I think it was just because I wasn't very good at doing what other people told me to do. Not that I like telling other people what to do but I didn't really like.

LS:

[Not] being in charge?

CPG:

Being in charge of it but also create whatever was happening rather than have to do what was already created in a way.

LS:

And is your work in, mainly contemporary that you devise in?

CPG:

It’s a contemporary style but I’m very postmodern and I like pastiche so I like to mix things up and put in things from different places. Like we don’t flamenco really but I’m inspired by it so we kind of get inspired by flamenco dance. I do love ballet as well so I try and throw in ballet references whenever I can and recently cause my partner used to dance in musicals, I throw in some Fosse. I like to reference them. But I would say the work is contemporary but it has a lot of influences and references.

LS:

And how long have you been working as a choreographer now?

CPG:

Two years.

LS:

And how old are you, do you mind me asking?

CPG:

Twenty six.

LS:

Would that be your primary profession now?

CPG:

I do bits and bobs. I’m a dance critic as well for Dance Europe and I teach dance history and I proof read and I translate. But the aim is that choreography will hopefully be the prime job.

LS:

Ok well thank you for that, both of you. Right so we've talked a bit about your dance training. Are either of you trained in any other art forms as well, apart from dance? Do you play an instrument or painting?

VDS:

I never. I was sports girl. I discovered dance more as a physical thing than an art, for me.  And then, little by little I discovered it was an art and I started being into it a bit more as art but I was, am a physical dancer. And also interested in art but it came later.

LS:

Ok cool. What about you? [Carlos]

CPG:

I did. I trained in music since I was very little. So I did piano, violin. I play the guitars as well but not very well. I did a lot of drama as well since I was little so there was a lot of theatre. So I would say my approach to dance was the opposite. It was more of an art form and then I saw it was a lot more expressive than theatre or music could be.

LS:

Ok that’s interesting. Could you explain a bit more to me why you find dance more expressive than the other two art forms?

CPG:

I remember watching a ballet performance. The first time I watched at thirteen or something and I just saw the bodies and I realised that bodies were just expressing themselves without any other tool. I felt that with music, unless you’re singing I guess, you need words or you need your instrument. With drama as well you need text. With writing you need the words but it seemed like with dance, the body was the purest. The body could be naked and it could say a lot and it didn't need a lot on top of that. So it just seemed to me the most purest and honest form of expression.

LS:

That’s very interesting. So for you guys, as dancers, and how you perceive other dancers, what are some key characteristics for you that would define a person that you would call a dancer? Is it their physicality or the fact that. .. For example, for me, someone who is a good dancer when I watch them is when they move, it makes me want to move. That’s one of the key things for me. So for you guys, what are some of those key things?

VDS:

For me when I see a dancer, and it makes me feel something, that’s when I say, 'Whoa yeah. You are a good dancer.' Or I understand, not always understand but I get into the story or whatever it is. I get really involved.

LS:
They draw you in in some way?

VDS:

Exactly yeah. Basically that’s all. I don’t really care about technique or musicality or anything like that. It’s more about what they say.

LS:

Through their movement?

VDS:

Through the movement, yeah.

CPG:

I’m a bit split between that because I do find that I do really appreciate technique in someone and I do appreciate an aesthetic sense in how you’re moving.

LS:

Infrastructure?

CPG:

Yeah or being very aware of form but I realise it’s quite an archaic kind of conception but I do follow it. I do think also there is something about even people who are not trained, a sense of dynamic and of being able to use different rhythms even if they’re not conscious of doing it. So rather than just moving in one single rhythm they've got… for me dynamic is drama so it’s having that. And then I think there is also something. I think it comes from quite inside. Yesterday there was a girl performing and she’s not trained as a dancer and she does this monologue where she’s pretending she’s in a club. But there was something really entrancing in the rhythm that she had. The internal rhythm and it just made me watch her. It was really entrancing what she was doing so I think there’s something. It’s not about being rhythmical or musical. I think it’s about having an interior rhythm and letting your body follow that, whatever that rhythm is.

LS:

That just leads me to another question. This is the last interview I’m doing, I've done another five interviews and there’s been lots of things brought up. And one of the things that some of the other interviewees have brought up is that there’s a belief that as human beings we do have an innate rhythms within ourselves. Is that something you guys believe, do you think it’s something that we’re just born with and dance is just an expression of that?

CPG:

Yeah.

VDS:

Definitely you can see people who have never trained in dance and they have it inside and you can see people who have good technique, they've been dancing for twenty years, and then they don’t have anything, they don’t tell you anything.

LS:

That’s interesting as well. Do you think that technique sometimes, or training can actually hamper a way someone dances socially? Let me tell you something first. One of the reasons I decided to do this topic was when I was, I trained when I was younger as well and up to about 14, 15, my main training was ballet. And I was fifteen so I was a teenager and we started going out dancing at clubs and stuff. And I realised myself and a lot of the other girls that I trained with at the time just couldn't really dance that well cause we were so trained and we had not had much experience of social dancing and we didn't  know how to let go and follow the music. And it really shifted my thinking about dancing and ever since then, my view’s been quite different about dancing.  So what do you think about dancing. Do you think that training sometimes gets in the way of that expression?

CPG:

Yeah I think so cause for example last week when we were making this piece, whether you trained in ballet and contemporary, you've got rhythm that’s innate you've got this or that and you train to follow the music and you be on the music and be on the time.  I was choreographing movement for Murray Victoria and our mentor came in and said. ‘You've choreographed it exactly to the music so the rhythm that’s come up isn't  particularly exciting or original because it’s exactly to the music.’ And I find that sometimes when you’re just not thinking about any of these things, you come up with very interesting rhythms and very different dynamics that you don’t if you stick to a conventional dance rhythm. And I was teaching children once. They were only like four or five and they put some silly song on. I think it was Madonna and they were all dancing and there was one girl. She was a girl, slightly a bit different to the rest. And they were all dancing to the rhythm and she was, I don’t know what she was doing. She was just throwing her arms out at odd times and she had an amazing, very interesting movement quality because whatever she was doing, she was inside herself and doing what she wanted rather than what the music said, and I found that, Oh wow, that was very interesting and choreographically that was a lot more rich than what the other children were doing.

LS:

There’s more texture I guess to that.

CPG

And it’s something, I don’t know what the girl was imagining, but there was something more expressive and a lot more honest and sincere.

VDS:

For me technique is not that takes your own rhythm out of it, it’s not that. I think that technique is necessary but you cannot get stuck into technique. For example ballet is technique but which ones are the best dancers? The ones that have good technique and also have something else that they express. They do something else. So technique is very important but you have to do improvisation. You have to do whatever else, loads of things to really dance.

LS:

And you have to perhaps live a life as well and bring that to your [work].

VDS:

Of course, it’s very important to live your own life and then how to express that through your body so technique cannot be the only thing. And I sometimes found that when people, these kinds of dancers that are special in that they don’t think about technique and when they get into technique they lose a bit of whatever made them special. But if you keep training, you can put it together and it can work but if you stay stuck into technique it’s not going to happen but you learn how to mix both things and this is when you are a dancer really. When you are a professional dancer. But yeah, of course you can be training in technique for years and years and not really be able to dance.

LS:

I agree. So let’s move on to the social dancing thing that I was talking to you guys about. Do you guys go out dancing? Do you dance much in your private life, at parties, clubs? Weddings?  At home?

CPG:

Yeah, we relax a little bit.

LS:

Can you explain a bit what kind of events or places you would go to go out dancing?

CPG:

All sorts really. I go to all kinds of clubs. I go to gay clubs. But I think, we normally, we’re best friends [referring to Victoria] I discovered when I was eighteen, nineteen that I really like to go to not raves, but more drum and bass kind of things where I could actually dance weird.

LS:

What do you mean by that?

CPG:

I don’t know. Even since I was little, I remember being at kids parties. Like this little girl I was speaking about before. I kind of came up with weird movements that were really funny that I wanted to do. Just like odd movements and I think that in a drum and bass gig, people are just kind of like doing their own thing and I felt that I could like, not do contemporary dance as such but, I've been known to do it, but it felt like you could really get into the music and let it do whatever you wanted to do. And you could just kind of swish around with your arms and your back and then turn and bump into your friend. Actually when I was fifteen, sixteen I used to go to a lot of rock gigs and heavy metal stuff.

LS:

For the same reason?

CPG:

Yeah I liked the music. I was a goth but there was, you know, you do all this thing at rock concerts where everyone runs into each other and there was something about the liberty of that movement and being able to just bump into each other spill your drink and it didn't matter. It wasn't like all the more upstream bars and the more posh bars where 
everyone’s all looking pretty and beautiful and standing with their drinks like that. It’s more about letting go and being what you wanted to be. So I think that is the kind of event that I liked when I used to go out dancing.

LS:

What about now though? If you were to go out dancing?

CPG:

I think I still would enjoy that. I think if I go to a more conventional bar, I rather just have a beer and sit and talk. But to get me really open and dancing, I like to go somewhere where there is Motown or really cheesy music where you can be silly. But I’m really not into going somewhere and dancing sexy. It’s not really my thing.

LS:

What about you Victoria?

VDS:

I actually quite agree with him. I started also liking rock, punk and things like that because of the energy that this music gives you and so you can get mental.  And then I kind of discovered electronic music which I used to hate because it’s really like dum, dum, dum dum. But then when you start listening to drum and bass when it goes mwaaah, you can do whatever you can actually really explore your body and in this kind of reference people don’t really look at you that much. I normally feel really ashamed to go to maybe a posh bar, I have to be careful I don’t really want to let myself go too much because people watch you. They come to you and they go, ‘Oh you dance really well’ and you’re like, Ok right. I’m just going to be subtle now.' When you go to crazy places, people don’t look at you so I’d rather go to clubs where they don’t look at you, so if I go on [the] floor, whatever.

CPG:

I think also, I've found that I've been to places where people have been quite judgmental 

LS:

How can you tell that they’re being judgmental?

CPG:

Well that actually come and tell you don’t dance so much.

LS:

Oh really?

CPG:

Or don’t dance so weird or be careful. It happened to us that we might be, not doing a duet but snaking in and out of each other or going up and down on the floor, but not really bothering anyone. But you've got people looking mad at you like stop doing that.

LS:

What kind of place is this at?

CPG:

At the more commercial clubs or kind of events. I've actually had, it was really funny but we were in Spain and we were in a village club and it was really empty. There was hardly anyone there and my friend and I were dancing and I wasn't doing anything. Like I wasn't doing handstand or anything but it was a bit more contemporary maybe but I was really enjoying it but the bouncer actually came in and said, 'Don’t dance so much,' and I was 'Oh sorry, I thought you came to clubs, I didn't know you came to clubs to sit down.' And you do get the odd people who do like, who look at you like, maybe this is inappropriate for here or maybe you are taking away attention from them. Or maybe they’re very funny about you getting close to them. I don’t know, it’s really bizarre but I've had moments where people look down at you. Or times where they really appreciate you like, 'Oh wow, this is really cool.’ But more often or not, it’s people looking down at you, and being all like, especially if you get like, the Muscle Mary's - the big muscly men and the very uptight women.

VDS

I agree completely.

LS:

So do you think like at drum and bass events and the rock events, the people that might go to those events are a bit more live and let live as opposed to...

CPG:

Yeah.

VDS:

They go for the dancing. They go to enjoy the music.

LS:

And it’s about the dancing and not.

CPG:

About picking up or this or that. And people will join you. Maybe they can’t move like you and they’re like, can you teach me something or can you dance with me. And it’s about the shared experience of dancing or the music rather than looking amazing or other elements. It’s really about that.

LS:

Alright, in terms of the way you dance at these places, do you find your training has anything to do with it? Or is it an entirely different thing?

CPG:

I think the contemporary training definitely. Not in the more traditional sense. When we were training, we would maybe like think about a sensation we felt in the studio and improvise it. Or maybe you just think of the imagery. Because we train a lot in imagery in contemporary so you think maybe, 'Oh, I'm full of water and I'm dancing around,' or 'I’m following a light.' Or you know. I also think that when I was younger...

LS:

But you are young.

CPG:

I mean younger younger. When I was a baby when I first started training I did try to show off sometimes. That thing of ‘Oh do a pirouette now’ which would probably fall off because you were drunk and everyone would be like, ‘Oh wow.’  So there was a bit of showing off in the beginning but I don’t do it anymore because I'm embarrassed. But yeah, I do say not in these events that we were talking about but if I were in a posh club or in a gay club I sometimes would feel a bit embarrassed.

LS:

To show your training?

CPG:

No, no, no, not to show my training. The opposite. A lot more self-conscious than maybe someone that hadn't trained.

LS:

Why do you think that is?

CPG:

I don’t know. Maybe it’s because nobody knows that I'm a dancer but I think everyone knows and I kind of feel like I'm expected to throw all these amazing moves because I'm not very good at hip hop or street dance and many other things like the music they play at gay clubs. I'm not very good at doing all that. I can’t do at all actually so it makes me feel like a block.  Or like I should be able to dance in a Britney video. But I'm really not that kind of dancer. Last summer we were holidaying in Gran Canaria and we were watching this drag show every night and there’s this bit of audience participation where the drag queen comes out and takes a member of the audience. And I'm like, if that happened to me I would be terrified just because I kind of, just to go on stage and not have a choreography and to be put on the spot like that and I think people would expect me to do amazing dancing and I’d just be so embarrassed. And I thought all the other people who weren't trained in dance didn't have a problem with just going up and just looking silly but I think to be put on the spot and look silly for us might be harder for us than other people.

LS [to Victoria]:

How do you feel about that?

VDS:

For me it’s not like that. When I go dancing, I don’t really think. I actually don’t like that people know I am a dancer. It doesn't really affect me in this way. It just affects me to feel a bit like, 'Ok don’t move too much.' Yeah some people might think so they come and they did at some point. But when I train in a studio, then when I go dancing in a pub or whatever, I don’t think I really take it. Of course if my training helps me to understand how to move depending n the music maybe or like I have more freedom in my body. But I actually sometimes get more crazy and find more movement on a dance floor than a studio sometimes so for me it’s a bit the opposite. I take a kind of movement that I found at night dancing in a pub and I take it to the studio sometimes. So yeah for me, it’s a bit the opposite I think.

LS:

Alright.  Are you from Gran Canaria as well?

VDS:

I'm from Barcelona.

LS:

Do you guys go back often to Spain? Because I’d be interested to ask you how you find the social dancing in the UK as opposed to the social dancing [in Spain] Is there much of a difference in terms of how people [dance]? What’s the difference?

VDS:

Yeah. What we were talking about before about people judging you. In Spain, people judges you a lot. A lot!

LS:

Really?  More some times?

VDS:

Yeah. Here people look at you, the clothes you wear as much as in Spain. They don’t look at the way you dance, as in this person shouldn't be here. For me in Spain, people will look at you; they judge you more, well till they get a bit drunk and then everything is fun.  But yeah, it’s true.

LS: [to Carlos]

And do you find that too?

CPG:

I think it’s slightly different in Gran Canaria because it’s smaller than Barcelona and I think, one there’s not as many events as we go to here, like concerts or nights out so the offer of where to go is smaller. I think it’s more about the commercial salsa music there or the commercial kind of reggaeton, or different kinds of music. Obviously the rock concerts; a rock concert is a rock concert anywhere so that for sure is the same. I find though that in Gran Canaria I tend to go more gay clubbing cause there’s quite a big gay community there. And there I do have fun because it’s quite crowded and I do enjoy having a bit of a camp dance but I do think if we started dancing in Spain like we do here, when we talk about being a bit more contemporary, people would be like, what are you doing because they’re not used to contemporary dance or to seeing that kind of thing. I do remember one very, we were in a gay club once and it was one of those clubs were everyone was going bu-choomp, bu-choomp, bu-choomp and all the men were dancing the same and then eventually they played. It was getting towards the end of the night and everyone just started leaving. I think it was Fat boy Slim started playing, and I remember I started dancing with another guy there and we both went crazy dancing. It was almost empty and we were going raaaah, dancing around each other and going on the floor and it was really cool. We started chatting. He was from Leeds. So I thought something was happening here. We had the most amazing dance at the end when it was closing. There was hardly anyone there and it was because he was from England! Because all the other Spanish were just going dum, dum, dum, dum, dum. So yeah I think it’s different.

VDS:

A few months ago I went to Spain for a wedding and the girl was English from Chester and he was Spanish. And she came to me and she said, 'Oh Maria, I miss so much England and going dancing and getting crazy,' and I was like, 'Yeah, it’s true. Here in Spain you don’t feel like you can get as crazy as in England.' And she was like, 'You’re right. You’re right.  Really need to go and dance twenty four hours nonstop and just no-one will look at me and just enjoy the music and just enjoy moving.' And so we got a bit crazy at the wedding. But she was English and she was saying that also.

LS:

Why do you think it’s a bit more kind of like that in Spain?

VDS:

Probably because of education maybe, arts education. People understand the arts here more so they know music is art, dance is art. We know it, we enjoy it. We do it, it
doesn't mean you have to study it to enjoy it yeah but it’s not a bad thing to crazy. It’s just a way of expressing yourself actually feeling better for going Monday to work. You actually kind of let it go a bit. While in Spain, I think we will get there, but in Spain maybe…

CPG:

Yeah I think it’s that. For instance just in Gran Canaria, there’s not much of a dance culture, an artistic dance culture. There’s a lot of clubbing but not.. and I think that just that here it seems like, especially in a bigger city that people are used to seeing contemporary dance in other contexts. Or when they see you dance like that they’re like ‘oh wow’, and they appreciate more. Maybe they’re just more used to seeing break-dancers or body poppers so they’re more used to seeing dance in other aspects of life.

LS:

Do you think that it’s also because. I don’t know if there are shows about dance on TV in Spain but here there is also a lot of dance on TV.

CPG:

Yeah there’s a lot of like youth companies and B –boy companies and stuff and festivals. And I think people are more used to seeing dance on the street and in Spain they’re not so used to it so they find it a bit. They’re used to it in different contexts for instance in the South of Spain there is a lot of flamenco and that’s a social dance for them and it’s a very rich social dance but in places they don’t have that. I don’t know. Then it’s also true that I've lived most of my adult life here in England so I haven’t been there for so long, but from my experience of being there it is a bit like, a bit more contained.  But I do think that they have another kind of, it’s a more sexual dance in Spain. In the commercial aspect they do go a bit crazy with reggaeton or salsa and it’s very sexual which is very South American in a way and they get quite free in that sense.

VDS:

And they've kind of got the rhythm inside. Kind of I think.

CPG:

Yeah they kind of let go but it’s in a more sexual way maybe.

LS:

So you can let go and do that but within the structure of those dances. But if you let go in your own style or whatever, then they would look and say ‘what are they doing?’

Both:

Yes! Exactly.

LS:

Ok you both mentioned that you like drum and bass in terms of music. Are there any other kinds of music styles that you both really like to dance to socially? That always makes you want to get up on the dance floor and move?

CPG:

Electronic.

VDS:

To be honest, I really like anything. It depends on the moment. Sometimes I like cheesy music just for the silly stuff. But yeah, probably electronic music is the one that makes me move more.

CPG:

Trance.

VDS:

Trance is good and jungle. Even jungle.

CPG:

I do like as I said to you before, things like Motown or maybe eighties classic or things like that. Power ballads or things that you can be a bit silly.

LS:

Have you heard about the power ballads night in Camden?

CPG:

Aah no.

LS:

I’ll tell you about it after the interview.

VDS:

Salsa. I like to move my bum also. Salsa, rhumba. Flamenco.

CPG:

Only for moving here. I think whenever we get together, we have a party at home or we are in somebody’s, not very often but if we go to a Spanish night and we listen to very, stuff that you wouldn't listen to in Spain because it’s so cheesy. But here, I do think we kind of reconnect with our national identity by dancing so I think that there is something there where we feel like we’re home. It’s about linking with home.

LS:

Through those movements or through that music?

Both:

Yeah.

LS:

Now this is a really general question and every time I ask someone they go, how do you expect me to answer that? It’s quite broad but just curious to see what you think what kind of role dance plays in the society that you live in now? Just because dance has always played some kind of a role and for you guys, apart from your profession, what kind of role do you think it plays for the average person on the street? If you think it has such a role?

CPG:

I think there’s several. I think it’s definitely like an outlet for many people because it comes on the weekends normally or in the evenings. I've definitely used it as an outlet if I've had a very busy week. I also know, I’m not particularly a part of it, but I know for the gay community for instance, for many people it’s a problem, but it is something like a step towards sex. It is something that is very sexual.

LS:

Right like foreplay almost in a way.

CPG:

It’s foreplay and then you start doing and then you end up [having] sex or [going] to a sex party or something like that. And I know for a big part of the gay community, especially in London or big cities that it’s kind of like, the dancing itself is not very important. What you want is what happens afterwards. So it’s about being there being seen and then picking up and going and I think that is a very important part in that. But also for many other people in the gay community it is about having fun. It’s also about getting together with friends so yeah I think…

LS:

Just picking up about what you said about that because I think dance has historically played a part as a mating ritual in lots of cultures and you just talked about that within the gay community. Do you think that is still the case generally, not just within the gay community but in general? In  a lot of Western societies, a lot of people start experiencing social dance when they’re in their teenagers and with puberty and whether you’re gay or straight, they start interacting with the sexes, maybe in a different kind of way and becoming aware of them in a different kind of way. Do you think it’s still part of that mating thing or do you think it’s not so much?

CPG:

Yeah I think it is and when you look at it, it’s very animalistic. It’s a very animal kind of trait that we have. We want to disguise it in whatever but it is what it is.

LS:

And why do you think we do that through dance? Is it something that is just.. .why dance? Why not go to a movie together? Or sing together? I don’t know.

CPG:

I think it must be something anatomical, physiological or chemical about it.

VDS:

Yeah, something chemical. Yeah so maybe you have nothing in common. You have nothing to talk about. The chemistry like the way you understand the rhythm of this song or the way you move.

CPG:

Also the endorphins you’re creating. What’s happening in your body.  The fact that you’re sweating. Your heart is going. I think it excites you.

VDS:

Some people don’t really like dance and they don’t really socialise with dance so I think it’s the kind of people. Some people can do both but some people are better talking. Having a wine and sitting in a place. That’s the way they meet people.  But some other people maybe after the wine,they feel more confident dancing so maybe you don’t have to think too much about what you’re going to say. Let it go and see if you connect. You know, if you have this chemistry.

LS:

That just reminded me something in terms of wine. Do you guys feel that you dance more, do you feel better dancing if you've had a drink or taken something as opposed to being sober or does it not matter?

CPG:

Yeah. For me definitely, yeah.

VDS:

For me it was about what we were saying before. You sometimes feel a bit embarrassed of dancing too much and when you drink something or take something, you don’t really feel embarrassed anymore, that’s all. But if I play music in my room maybe with another dancer or with a really close friend or whatever I can get as crazy or even more if I’m drunk. But of course if you’re around people and what I was saying before, ok once you have drunk something, you don’t really care. But I can actually get really crazy without any drink, or anything.

CPG:

Yeah I kind of think that. With my partner who was a dancer, when we’re at home we can both dance and we do lifts and we do all those things. I do feel in a way when we’re doing that, and this is without alcohol or anything, it does make you feel like, I'm just letting myself be and I'm just having fun and I'm indulging in what I like and what I love. Obviously maybe you can’t go to a club and do a lift.

LS:

Well, you could.

CPG:

You could, but maybe us two we wouldn't. But is fun and I have found that like for dancing with partner as well, I have found that it’s been different from other partners I've had before because we have got that connection. That physical connection in a different way. And that’s without drinking or anything. So I think it depends on where you are.

LS:

Who’s around. Right, we’re getting to the end. Ok I’ll ask you one last question. So we've talked a lot about dancing. So in what kind of dance form do you guys best feel you are able to express yourself?

VDS:

Definitely contemporary. What is contemporary? Whatever. Yeah for me contemporary is just movement, so you can be silly, you can be really deep into something, you can be expressive. I think you can be not expressive at all. You can do whatever in contemporary dance. Basically because the technique is really, but we all know that technique is only twenty five percent of contemporary dance really. So yeah, I think contemporary dance of course for me.

LS: [to Carlos]

And what about you?

CPG:

I think contemporary for the same reason but I find the challenge in trying to express myself through ballet which I find quite exciting and Victoria will know that I have outbursts of ballet every now and then. But I love ballet also I didn't really train in it and I think that if I had started younger, I would have followed that path instead. I love watching ballet and many times if I'm very happy I might do a cabriole or I might do a pas de chat. But I think that in a way, when I do have these small outbursts of ballet, I am just expressing my inside. Because it’s what I love. For some reason I'm so attracted to it because unconsciously I find a way of expressing myself through it.  But it’s not the ballet I'm expressing, it’s just an expression of myself and I find the joy in it. For instance, this is very silly but when I'm low and sad, I think of big jumps in ballet and it makes me happy. Because it’s what I like to do the most. I like to jump. And if I can’t sleep, I think grand allegro and it makes me happy again so I sleep. I think there’s something there. For me to express happiness I think ballet is the thing. And excitement. 

LS:

Big ballet!

CPG:

Big ballet! Make me express happiness. But I know as a choreographer and everything, contemporary has a lot more options.

LS:

Ok great. Do you guys have anything else you want to say or any questions you have to ask of me at this point?

Both:

No.

LS:

Well thank you both very much for your time.

Interview with 'Simon' (June 9, 2014)

Interview with 'Simon'

General Public View of Dance

Monday June 9, 2014

10.00am – 10.40am

Wimbledon, London

Pre-Interview Set Questions:

·        Name

·        Age       

·        Location

·        Profession

·        Are you trained in any style of dance? If so, what was the period of training, e.g. 12 years in jazz, one off workshop in salsa

·        Are you involved any kind of dance activity in your daily life? e.g. Zumba classes, clubbing, work in the dance industry, watch tv shows on dance.

·        In the entire arts spectrum which includes music, visual art, literature, where does dance rank for you? Please explain why this is the case?

·        Do you agree that dance has always been a part of human society? Why? Why not? If yes, what role do you think dance has played historically?

·        What role do you think dance plays now in our society, if any?

·        If you had to become active in any type of dance, what type would you choose and why?

·        Do you think that they type of dancing I am researching, the type of dancing that anyone can do and which is usually done at social events, is actually a style of dancing? Why? Why not?

·        When you have participated in the above dancing, what affects the way you move?

·        Would you like to dance more in your daily life? Why? Why not?

Audio Version of Interview

Transcript

Note:

The interviewee is a 39 year old male physiotherapist. He is based in London and has chosen to remain anonymous for the purposes of this interview so I will be using 'Simon' as a pseudonym.

LS:

Right so shall we get started. So can you tell me your age?

S:

I’m 39.

LS:

And you’re based in London?

S:
Yes.

LS:
And your profession?

S:

I’m a physiotherapist.

LS:
Firstly can you tell me if you’re trained in any style of dance?

S:
No.

LS:
OK, and um, just so you know, some of these questions are going to be related to you specifically and some of them are just going to be general questions.

S:

Ok.

LS:
Can you tell me, for you, what defines a dancer? So if you were to watch someone, say if you were on the dance floor and your eyes were drawn to one person over another, what are the qualities that person has, to you that makes them a good dancer?

S:

I think it’s being able to stay on the beat, on the rhythm really. Umm, and obviously physical movement is important. I suppose some people would be on the beat but not really know what to do with their limbs and joints whereas some other people would be more co-ordinated.

LS:
So say you were at a professional dance show. You’re watching a show and everyone’s trained professionally so they’re all on the beat and they’re all doing the same movement; often the case is that you watch maybe some people more than others. I don’t know, that’s been my experience. Has that been your experience?

S:
Yeah.

LS:
And why is your then eye then drawn to some rather than others?

S:

I think because of my profession especially, often their physical attributes often attract me.

LS:
What they’re able to do?

S:
Yeah what they’re able to do in terms of flexibility but also their physique, their muscular definition and so on.

LS:
So is it about the dancing then?

S:
Um well yeah because I think you can someone in the same dance group who is physically well developed and so on but are not good a dancer as someone else. Why I would say they’re not such a good dancer, umm I suppose it’s the movement, fluidity and form and so on that will attract me.

LS:
Ok. So are you involved in dance activity in your day to day life at all?

S:

Not really. Apart from a little bit of social dancing, not that often.

LS:
Ok, let’s just skip forward to that, seeing as you brought it up, the social dance aspect. So, do you go out dancing socially in your life?

S:

Not that often anymore. Used to as a student a lot.

LS:

When you were a student. Can you just say the age group?

S:

Well I studied for a long time, I started when I was 18 up until the age of about 23. And then had a break from studies. Studied again from the age of 28 through to 33, yeah 32, thereabouts. So yeah. I suppose in my first degree, probably did a lot more social dancing. When I was older, different responsibilities and so on so we didn't socialise as much as part of your studies.

LS:

So do you think that’s quite key the fact that you were a student that you went out dancing a lot because of the lifestyle at the time?

S:

Yeah definitely and because the opportunity was there.

LS:

Right, because that was what your peers were doing as well?

S:
It was what your peers were doing and at university, a lot of dances were arranged so we had, we actually called them socials and as part of your residence. The university I studied at had four male, no sorry, five male and five female residences and you would have on a weekly basis a social arranged between a male residence and a female residence.

LS:

Can you [say] for clarity, where was this, that you studied?

S:

This was in South Africa.

LS:

And can you explain, just talk through what the social would involve? What kind of dancing, and what kind of music?

S:

Yeah so as a first year, I think part of it was just creating the opportunity for interaction between students so later on, I was on the House Committee of my Res and we would arrange it.  So as a first year you had to attend. And then seniors, senior students could attend, were free to attend if they wanted to. Yeah so it was a weekly social and a lot of it was an opportunity for interaction between students. But to be honest, a lot of the seniors still attended because it was good fun.

LS:

And what kind of dancing was it that happened at these socials?

S:
Well in South Africa we do a lot of what you call it, couples dancing.

LS:

Yeah, partner dancing.

S:
Partner dancing, so to contemporary music.

LS:
Like what? Give me an example?

S:

Oh it could be anything. It could be U2, it could be Waterboys. Just what was contemporary music at the time.

LS:

But it was partner dancing.

S:
It was partner dancing.

LS:

Was it always partner dancing?

S:

Um, mostly it would turn into partner dancing. I think initially most people would be a bit shy to ask a girl to have a dance unless you know her so as seniors we would normally do it as you would know a lot of the girls there anyway. But as a juniors or as first year student, you may do a little bit of free dancing and partner later on.

LS:
Interesting.  And were you guys taught to partner dance or did you just kind of make it up? Was there a kind of structure that you adhered to?

S:          

Yeah there is because I think socially growing up, it’s a very traditional way of dancing, especially in the Afrikaans South African community. And that’s quite interesting because English South African’s don’t really partner dance that much.

LS:         
And so do you mean that from a young age, that was part of the culture?

S:
Yes if you go to weddings, you go to any sort of social event, there was always partner dancing.

LS:

So was dancing a part of your childhood then in that way. That you participated in partner dancing from a young age?

S:

It was at events. Other than events, I never did any dancing at such but yes at any sort of event that we had, there would be dancing.

LS:

So do you think that period, that 18-23 period was the peak of your social dancing so far?

S:

Yeah probably. When I came over to England for the first time, I wasn't qualified as a
physiotherapist. I was just sort of travelling at the time.

LS:

And how old were you then?

S:

So I was 27 when I first came over.  So we did a lot of dancing then going out to clubs and things like that which was very different to what we did in South Africa.

LS:

And how did you find that difference in terms of that you danced both styles.  What was your preference? Or is your preference?

S:
My preference is the couples dancing but I don’t think it’s necessarily to do with the dancing.

LS:
The interaction?

S:
It’s more to do with the interaction. Whereas if you go to a club, if you’re in a group of people, you’ll have interaction with that group. Maybe you’ll meet one or two other people on an evening but you won’t interact with everybody, whereas couples dancing, you tend to have many partners that you’ll dance with in the evening so it’s quite social. Both are social but it’s personably social.

LS:
I've just got another off the cuff question because you seem to have done a lot of couple dancing. So obviously in lot of those situations, usually the man is the lead. How do you find that? Did you find that easy? Or would it depend on the partner? And culturally was there a difference in terms of couple dancing in South Africa as opposed to over here or other places you've been? What’s it like for the man to have to be the lead?

S:

Again culturally in South Africa it’s not a problem because there is more sort of a male female difference in terms of traditional values. Here perhaps not so much. So yeah I think that the girls that you danced with probably expected that you take the lead.

LS:

So they would allow you to lead?

S:

I also found that it made a big difference in who you danced with and who you danced with often cause some girls could really follow your lead but some other girls where quite, maybe they wanted to lead a little so it wasn't so fluid. Over here I've done a little bit of couple dancing. My wife’s family is all Irish so they tend to do a bit more frequently. So
I've been to one or two and it tends to be more older social events like a fiftieth wedding anniversary and stuff like that where I've couple danced and to be honest, they will also allow you to take the lead.

LS:
I've just got one more question about the couple dancing. So even though it’s a structure of the two people dancing together, it is quite spontaneous in that you might go with the music and depending on the space that you have and the person that you’re dancing with at the time and how you might be feeling. So in a couple dance scenario for you, what makes a good dance?

S:

Space is important because obviously with couple dancing you’re not standing in one place dancing so you’re moving around the dance floor. So space is important and also other people being able to dance because ultimately they’ll bump into you and that just makes it more difficult. I’d say that probably space is the most thing.

LS:

Really?  Ok interesting. I’m going to move on now.

S:

OK.

LS:

Are you involved or are you trained in any art form? Painting, music?

S:
I play a few instruments but I’m not formally trained. So I've had some piano training and I've had some guitar training but I’m pretty much self-taught on drums, guitar and piano.

LS:
And do you find that that experience of playing instruments, does that effect your social dancing?

S:
Yeah, very much.

LS:

How so? Can you explain?

S:

So my favourite instruments are drums.

LS:

What kind of drums?

S:
Kit. Drum kit. And percussion. I do percussion not that I've had any formal training in it. And that to me, the melody and so on obviously has a role to play but really it is the beat that is the important thing so some music to me, just lends itself to dancing and others  that is very fast, obviously couple dancing on some techno beats which are very fast is quite difficult. Because I’m quite good at keeping the beat from playing the instruments, mainly is what draws me to some music rather than others.

LS:
Ok. So that kind of rhythmic thing carries on to the social dance experience?

S:
Yeah.

LS:
Alright for you, in terms  of the arts spectrum including music, literature, painting, so on and so forth, where does dance rank for you in terms of a priority? Is it even on there?

S:

Yes it is and I’d say it’s probably first or second. Like I enjoy shows which is normally a combination of singing and dancing.

LS:

So you like musicals?

S:

Yeah musicals. Musical shows. So the combination of singing, acting and dancing. Painting and stuff like that I appreciate but it’s not something that I…

LS:

And why does dance rank so highly for you then?

S:

Again because, like I said, I started training in instruments and I was told, or my parents were told that there was no point in me coming because I would not read music. Because I read everything from ear. So I have quite a good feel and…

LS:

You appreciate seeing that [embodied]?

S:

..that’s why I think I appreciate that more than other things.

LS:

If you could train in any form of dance what would it be and why?

S:

Tap.

LS:

Tap!  Explain.

S:

Again the rhythm. I’m never [inaudible], I’m always tapping to music and so on

LS:

Is there like any tap dancers you know of?

S:

No really. Obviously Michael Flatley which is not really tap in an Irish form. Which I just find to be amazing to watch. But that’s the only real dancer that I know of.

LS:
Ok so I think I've talked to you a bit about the kind of dancing that I’m looking at. This kind of everyday style dance that people can do irrespective of whether they have training and it happens usually at social events. Do you actually think that it is a form of dancing, a style of dancing? How would you definite it? Because obviously there are things like ballet and jazz which are more kind of structured forms of dance and this is something that anyone can do and can take any form or expression. Do you think that it is a form of dancing?

S:

No I wouldn't say it’s a form of dancing, I would say it’s a form of enjoyment and that why everyone does it because it gives you some entertainment but I don’t think it a formal type of dance.

LS:
Going back to what you were saying earlier about how you don’t go out dancing as much
as you did say when you were a student. Can you explain a little bit why that’s the case?

S:

Umm, yeah I think just different responsibilities. I think even when I studied the second time around as a mature student I had different responsibilities. I had a part time work because I was no longer living at home, nor in a university residence. I had to live on my own, pay for a flat and so on, so the opportunities were just fewer so you had other things that needed to be done and now I have children, young children so again finding a babysitter that often is not available.  So that’s probably to do with responsibility and opportunity.

LS:

Right. So would you like to dance more in your daily life?  Are you happy with the amount you go out dancing now? Would you like to lessen it, keep it as it is or have a few more opportunities?

S:

Hmm. That’s a difficult question.

LS:

Is it?

S:

Yeah it is. I mean I enjoy it but it’s not only the dancing, you can go out and socialise without the dancing which is also enjoyable.

LS:

Building that question, what do you think dancing adds to a night out? Like you say, you can go out and meet friends and have dinner and have a drink or whatever and still interact socially. What do you think the element of dancing, if you introduce dancing to the night, what does it give to the night?

S:

Hmm.

LS:

Exercise?

S:

I suppose it is a form of exercise. Well depends on how you do it? Well I think nowadays when you go out dancing, and maybe you’ll come onto that question because it was in your survey, but a lot of it is to do with inhibitions and so on. So I think that people will go out to a pub where dancing, where there is an opportunity to dance but some people won’t. Some people still just sit and have their conversations and so on. So I think that alcohol and losing inhibitions have a role to play in whether you’re going to dance or not.  So I don’t know if it adds anything to the enjoyment because I think you can enjoy yourself in both, or I can enjoy myself in both scenarios, whether I’m dancing or not. Sometimes depends on the company I suppose. If you’re happy just to have a conversation. ..

LS:

So you’re not sure is what you’re saying?

S:
I’m not a 100% sure it adds anything.

LS:

It’s just a different experience.

S:

Yeah so for me, I think  some events dancing almost always have to be a part of it to make the event, for example a wedding.

LS:
Yeah, yeah I see.

S:

I think a wedding without the dance element is sometimes more…

LS:

Why’s that, why does …

S:
I think it’s more formal I think.

LS:

Why do you think dancing so important to happen at a wedding?

S:
Probably just tradition. Obviously we've all been to weddings where there is no dancing. It just feels a little more stiff. With the dancing element it’s more enjoyable.

LS:

So celebratory?

S:

Yeah so if you’re asking what does it add, maybe it does add to the enjoyment aspect.

LS:

Ok so I interrupted you before when I asked you whether you’d like to dance more or
less in your dally life so can you go back to that cause I don’t think you answered that yet?

S:

Yeah I really enjoy dancing so I wouldn't mind if I had the opportunity to dance more but it’s also not something that I feel that…

LS:
You have to seek out?

S:

That I have to seek it out. Yeah.

LS:

Actually I just forgot one question. So when you do social dance, and I’m talking about solo social dance here, a lot of people have certain moves that irrespective of whatever the music is or whatever‘s happening, they pull out those moves. Do you have those for yourself?

S:

Yeah probably to extent. I think coordination comes into it. There are certain things you have taught yourself to do. Some people when you don’t have that coordination will maybe stay more basic or if they go more complicated it probably loses the music a bit.

LS:

So what would be like a signature move of yours if you had to describe it?

S:

Like Michael Jackson.

LS:

Right, really?

S:

No, no, no. I don’t know. Again it comes back to the beat, I do probably a lot more footwork movement because of interpreting the beat and the drums. Not only the rhythm but also the changes in the drums that is in the music.

LS:

So the focus is on your feet, is what you’re saying?

S:

Yeah, I’d say so.

LS:
Ok. Do you want to elaborate anymore?

S:

Hmm, well I think if you don’t move your feet it’s quite difficult to dance. You can have someone standing around and sort of swaying a bit and you know. I think that the foot movement is very important to drive all the rest of the [moves]. And again, from my professional point of view, it just makes bio mechanical sense. Not that I think about that when I’m dancing.

LS:

I was going to ask you that.

S:

No, I don’t think about that when I’m dancing but just thinking about it now, it just makes sense if your feet are moving. Your upper body is going to be following that more easily.

LS:

Alright. When you do go out social dancing, do you have preferences of where you like to go? Like do you like to go to clubs, friends’ houses or pubs?

S:

Yeah I don’t really like clubs because of the general type of music they play there so if it’s very repetitive; house or techno or that sort of type of music, one where the beat or melody rarely changes and also it’s quite loud in terms of being able to talk to people so I probably like a combination of the two where you have an opportunity to dance and an opportunity to have a conversation.

LS:

So speaking of music, if you were at a club dancing, what would be the ideal music for you, to get you up dancing?

S:

I personally like reggae but that’s not so mainstream. So most pubs that I got to would be like contemporary 80s music and a little bit of folky type music. Van Morrison, Bob Dylan, that type of music.

LS:

So because of your experience as a drummer, do you find that if you hear percussive music for example, that makes you want to move? Or do you just kind of listen to that as a drummer, if you know what I mean?

S:

Hmm. Yeah ummm, I don’t think the drums don’t necessarily. I do think I listen out for it a little bit more but that’s now what necessarily drives me to the dance floor. Cause every song has a drum beat, or a beat. So that’s not necessarily what will make me dance but I do tend to listen out for the drumming and percussion more.

LS:

Ok, my last question. Just when we talked a bit about how much you go out dancing nowadays, do you find that is the kind of norm amongst your social groups, in terms of your friends and family or whatever. Are you on par with them in terms of how much you access social dance? Can you talk a bit about that?

S:

I think it differs. My group of friends here compared to my group of friends in South Africa. And again it’s just circumstances. In South Africa we tend to have babysitters if not on call.

LS:

Do you mean family?

S:

Yeah, so it’s a lot easier. And also a lot of places are more child friendly so you can even take a child along. Here I think my group of friends don’t really go out dancing much.

LS:

And why is that?

S:

Same sort of scenario that I...

LS:

Young children?

S:

Yeah just kids, so that doesn't happen too often. My wife’s English and so her original group of friends, they tend to go out more. And again, it’s because their kids are much older now so their kids are sort of teenagers so they can leave them alone.

LS:

Yeah, well they’re out dancing too probably.

S:
Yeah they are probably are also. So that’s probably the reason why, so to answer your question. What was your question?

LS:
I was asking in terms of your friends, do you go out dancing the same amount as they do?

S:

Yeah same amount. So I think it differs here and there. My own friends over here, pretty much the same.

LS:

Sorry I said it was my last question but something else just popped into my head that I've been thinking about. You know how when you have conversations with people, people often talk about maybe films they've seen or music they like, bands they've seen, books they've read. And it’s quite common in day to day conversation to maybe have that kind of discussion about the arts. Do you find the same with dance? Like do you ever sit down with someone and have a chat about dance? Or say, ‘Do you know such and such a choreographer?’

S:

Apart from you?

LS:

Yeah apart from me.

S:

Yeah I think, in terms of shows, yes. Not in any other circumstances. People will mention it if they've been to a show or a musical or something like that but, and to be honest, I think when you do talk about musicals, dancing isn't what you talk about. So it’s more the story and the singing. If you go to a dance show obviously, that will be discussed but it’s not something that very frequently happens.

LS:

Why do you think that is?

S:

Hmmm.

LS:

Like for yourself, would you more readily talk about a film or a book than dance to a friend, or your wife or in conversation with someone?

S:

Probably and I think the reason is it’s more universal. So a movie or a book, most people would have heard of it or seen the movie. So whereas a dance show, maybe you've seen it but no-one else has seen it.

LS:

So do you think that’s interest or access? Cause obviously going to film is easier or cheaper, these days than going to see a dance show.

S:

I think they go hand in hand because if you’re not interested in dance, you’re not going to take out the money anyway to see it. So the interest is one part. But yeah it is less accessible to go see a show than it is to watch a movie.

LS:

Can I just as you one more question? And then I know we’re done with time.

S:

Don’t worry, we can carry on for a little bit.

LS:

I have to transcribe this, it’s going to take me a long time. So what role, this is a very general question so feel free to answer it however you want. What role do you think dance plays in our society now? Cause it’s always played some kind of role in human society. What role is now? If it has such a thing as a role? Entertainment? Leisure? Exercise? For you personally, what do you think?

S:
I don’t think it plays a very, what’s the word I’m looking for? So I think in times gone by in expressing culture. I don’t think it necessarily does that anymore.

LS:

Right. Why’s that?

S:

Well you know, probably because we've just evolved into much more technological society. Better education all round. People don’t express… I think if, for example if you look at a African culture, they would use a dance to thank gods for the food that they have so I don’t think we use it in that sort of sense anymore but I suppose it does still express your identity if you look at street dance. If you look at the people that participate in that. It’s normally a very specific socio-economic group that are involved in that. I think another role that it plays nowadays and only because of the popularity of it on TV shows and talent shows and so on, I think it almost has a role in terms of a career. So people see it as a way of making money, if you’re any good at it. I think there’s lots more opportunity than before where you would have been to be a very classical trained ballet dancer or a very classically trained jazz dancer. Whereas now you can do freestyle dancing all sorts of different things and you can still, I mean, what’s the group, the very popular group?

LS:

I don’t know.

S:

Obviously not that popular. The group that won one of those talent shows?

LS:

A dance group?

S:

Yeah.

LS:

I don’t know. Anyway so.

S:

Anyway yeah I think after that, especially I found that when you watch these programs every second group is a dance group so maybe it is trying to get out of certain circumstances and so on. So that’s the role I think it plays. I don’t think the social role has changed much so I think. Like I said dancing is there for enjoyment. I don’t think the way that we dance is any formal type of dance. I just think it’s just there for enjoyment and entertainment type of dance.

LS:

I just thought of one more question. I promise this is the last one. Now I know you have young children and I have a young daughter as well.  So for you watching your kids to where they are at now. I find with my daughter that dance is just an innate thing. She kind of did it before she even knew what dance was. Is that the same for your kids?

S:

Yeah absolutely.

LS:
So um, at what point do you think it becomes a ‘thing’ for us as people? Because obviously it’s something we are all born with the capacity to do, well most of us, that expressive way of moving your body. But at some point it becomes a thing to do rather than just an innate part of our expression.  What do you think actually happens?

S:

Well I think maybe we formalise it. My son just had his first school disco. He’s six and they had a little school disco and uh, so they were probably told ok well, that the music is going to play now and you’re going to dance whereas before the music would have played and they would have danced anyway. So it was much more informal. So maybe it’s not a change that happens naturally, it’s a change that happens by things being arranged. And I think also the other part of it is probably just development. A small child has no inhibitions and when they go into their teenage years and so on, they are much more self-aware and so that’s maybe the other part where it becomes more, ‘Ok, I wanna go out dancing now’ and some people will feel more comfortable with than others just cause of their own self-awareness, whether they’re shy. So maybe puberty, I dunno. So maybe I think we formalise it a little and you probably become more self-aware around your teenage years so you wouldn't do it as much unless you were very good at it.

LS:

Ok well thank you for answering for all my questions. Do you have anything you want to add or ask for yourself?

S:

No not really.

LS:
You’re not going to talk about dance now for the next year.

S:

No, no, no.

LS:

Well thank you very much.

I asked the interviewee an additional question below via email:

LS:

Do you mind if I just ask you one additional question? I'm asking you specifically as you work in and probably deal with a lot of sports people.

Why do you think, for the every person, sports is more a thing to be prioritised than social dance?

I'm assuming that the above is the case. I could be wrong.

S:

I think people associate sport with exercise and health benefits. Social dance is probably associated more with relaxation as well as some more unhealthy activities such as drinking, smoking etc.  Secondly the opportunity for sport is greater than social dance and can also be done as an individual e.g. running. I think most people would agree that dancing is a form of exercise, but more in a formal environment (dance classes) rather than dancing socially.